T.J. Cloutier Earns 60th Major Tournament Victory

by Justin West

This Tuesday, T.J. Cloutier was crowned as the winner of the Scotty Nguyen Poker Challenge IV. T.J. earned almost $250,000 for this first place finish, and in the process moved his all-time recorded winnings close to the mark of $7,000,000.

Already in the Poker Hall of Fame, standing alongside such legends as Doyle Brunson, Stu Ungar, and Johnny Moss, even having played on the road with a few of them, with this win T.J. added another credit to his list of accomplishments. This most recent victory marks the occasion of T.J. Cloutier's 60th major tournament victory, a number that most poker players could only dream of.

Despite this being the day before Thanksgiving, I was able to catch up with T.J. to offer a note of congratulations on his win and get his thoughts on what had proven to be an incredible and star-studded final table.

Justin: Congratulations on your win at the Scotty Nguyen Poker Challenge! From what I understand this is your 60th win. How does that feel?

T.J.: Thank you! Of course, it feels pretty good!

Justin: It took a little while to get from 59 to 60, was there a part of you asking, "When is this going to happen?!"

T.J.: Yeah, it did take a while! You get to wondering, but the last four tournaments I've been in I cashed in. I got second in Oklahoma at the WinStar, I think 21st at Biloxi, then 12th at Foxwoods, then this weekend, so that's alright.

Justin: So that was one heck of a final table you played with in Oklahoma...

T.J.: Yeah! Well it had a lot of the young stars, Gavin Smith, Bill Edler, Scotty Nguyen. Well, Scotty can't really be called a “young man,” anymore, and neither can Bill, but Bill hasn't been on the scene that long and he's done really well. He's a good player.

Justin: What were your thoughts heading into such a strong final table?

T.J.: I'll tell you the truth I never worry about any of 'em. I know if I hold any cards, I'm gonna win. That's all. They're not going to outplay me. They might play as well as I do but they're not going to outplay me. I've got plenty of experience on all of 'em.

Justin: Was there a certain point at which you knew you were quite possibly going to win the tournament?

T.J.: Yeah, when we got heads-up, even though Ray Henson had 1.3 Million and I had 500,000.

Justin: You knew you could take him?

T.J.: Well, I thought I could! I play pretty well heads-up. Of course, you still gotta catch some cards, you know. Hell, I made four or five flushes. It was easy to make 'em 'cause he let me get there, but Ray's a very good player, you know. He finished 12th in the World Series this year, in The Big One. I respect his play just fine. Ray played really well but I kind of seized control when we got heads-up. Sometimes the cards let you do it, and sometimes you just play that way.

Justin: What was your strategy going into heads-up play?

T.J.: Well, when I first get to a final table I start playing each player individually just like I would play them heads-up. It gives me an advantage because once we get to heads-up, I already know how they're going to play.

Justin: It seemed like looking back on days one and two you were always near the head of the pack. Was this one of those tournaments in which everything just went right for you?

T.J.: Yeah, you know it kind of did. But, I mean, I did get aces beaten by queens early on, and on the final table I had aces beaten by eights! Dan Robertson, the local guy from Oklahoma who plays there all the time... he had a lot of chips and decided to bluff after he got a hold of them. He bluffed at Ray and Ray made made a big call on him for 100,000 with a pair of threes after all the cards were out. That's what I mean, Ray is a good player. Lots of times when you're playing against a certain class, people will crack a little, get a little chink in their armor. It's fine when they're on their way up to that stage, but you know when you start getting a little short-handed a lot of things show up.

Justin: Have you lost that "final table nervousness," yourself?

T.J.: I never had it. I'll tell you the truth I've never had nervousness on the final table. I always figure the hardest part is just getting to the final table. Once I get there, I'm completely relaxed.

Justin: If I'm right, wasn't there one point at the final table where you misread your hand?

T.J.: I was in the blind, so I didn't look back. I had 7-6 of hearts and I thought I had 5-6 of hearts, but it wouldn't have changed anything. The flop was 8-6-5 and I thought I had bottom two pair. Ray took off betting at it, and I raised him. Another player went all-in. It couldn't have busted me, but it could have done some damage. Of course, I called him. So then I looked back and saw I had 7-6 instead of 5-6.

But, if I'd made the first play I would have made the second play, anyway. Then I paired the seven on fourth street, a nine came on the river, and we split the pot. So, I actually took the lead on fourth street, anyway.

Justin: I know a lot of players would probably get a little unnerved after something like that happened...

T.J.: Well I didn't really misread the hand, I just never looked back. I got the cards for free. It didn't bother me. I mean, what the hell. That could happen to anybody. I did it one other time in my entire career, against Phil Hellmuth. I'd made a flush on the end at The Sands and I didn't see it, but I turned my hand in face-up like a pro will do when all the money is in there. The board reads itself then, so I won the pot.

Justin: You're a staple over at PokerSchoolOnline, not only an instructor but also giving the players a chance to play against you, something they might otherwise never get to do. Isn't there a part of you that's afraid of training these folks to play against you, that one day they'll beat you?

T.J.: (chuckling) No. You can't teach people what you're born with! The feel, and stuff like that? You can, and I do, teach them how to become winning players, but you can't teach them how to be you.

People always say: "How are you going to beat me? I've read all your books."

I always have a standard comeback: "I'm the one that wrote 'em."

Justin: I think it's interesting that Scotty Nguyen and Ray Henson, who were both at your final table for this event, finished in 11th and 12th place at this year's World Series of Poker main event.

T.J.: Scotty is the best short-stacked player that ever lived. I mean, if he gets short-stacked he doesn't give up, he plays it great. I was the one that finally knocked him out. He was on the button with Q-J, without many chips, and he made a little move.

I had two tens and moved Scotty in and he called me, hoping I had a small pair and he had overs. He did. He had Q-J and I had two tens and the flop came Q-J-10! He flopped two pair but I flopped a set, so that's how Scotty went out of that tournament.

Justin: Well, thanks for your time, T.J., especially before the holidays. I just have one more question for you on something that's important to me, too. You're in Richardson, TX. I'm in Austin. Do you think at some point we'll be able to play poker legally in Texas?

T.J.: As far as I'm concerned it's ridiculous that we're not, already. Why should all this money go outside the state? These rooms could be opened, they could be legally taxed. It's ridiculous that's it not here. You gotta realize when I first moved to Texas they still had the Blue Law, so Texas likes to be behind in a lot of things.

Texas is so progressive in most things and in others it's absolutely antiquated. Who knows? They brought this all up in the Texas Legislature and it looked like we were going to do something this year, but it was bombed by a few people that didn't want to see it go through.

Justin: I was there for the hearings, and was surprised by the unbelievable amount of support for that bill, sad to see that it didn't get passed because of politics.

T.J.: Well, sure! Why do you think it's not legal to play online in the US anymore? It's the same thing. They put the UIGEA on the back of a bill they knew would go through. The United States, I think, is embarrassed because they know the kind of money they could have been making on this all along. They could have been full partners with the online sites. It's amazing.

The United States could tax these companies on the money they make, and when people cash out they could tax them, too. It would solve a lot of problems in the United States for homeless people and a lot of others that need money.

Justin: Do you think it'll change at some point? T.J.: I think eventually they're going to come to their senses. The PPA is 800,000 strong now and it's going to get even bigger as they're getting more and more support from different congressmen... We'll just have to wait and see.

Justin: Again, many congratulations on your 60th victory, T.J.. Thanks for your time.

T.J.: Thanks! Of course.

(Author's Note: PokerPages provided live coverage for the Scotty Nguyen Poker Championship. Click here to access the blog, and to follow T.J.'s path to victory.)

More Interviews

Questions or comments on this article? Click here to send a letter to the editors

Justin West is Assistant Editor and a lead author for PokerPages.com. Having played poker since the age of 17, Justin spent more than a year earning a living on the green felt; a modest living, to be sure, but a living nonetheless. His aim was at one point to win the WSOP main event, thus causing Hell to freeze over. However, given his penchant for sin and his extreme dislike of cold weather, Justin has put that dream to rest.