Poker Interviews

Breakfast With Lou Krieger
By Sharla Lehrmann

Meeting Lou Krieger for the first time, at Escargot 2000 was truly a treat. His ability to create an environment that helps a poker “newbie” feel comfortable and welcome is truly a gift. I promptly went out and purchased his books, which have helped me improve my skills at Texas hold'em. I thank him publicly for that.

This year, at Escargot 2001, Lou agreed to sit with me and discuss a few ideas and thoughts he has regarding the Internet and how it can play a major part in helping poker to reach new audiences and grow. We bounced around some ideas regarding the definition of poker, the casino’s take on Internet gambling, and the possibility of obtaining corporate sponsorship for major poker tournaments in the near future. Sit down and relax, and read what this poker player and writer had to say about the outlook of poker in the new millennium.

SL – Lou, do you consider tournament poker to be a "sport?"

LK – I consider poker to be a competition. When I think of sports, I think of some form of athletic endeavor that involves your body in addition to using your mind. Even golf, which doesn’t use too much of your body, does take coordination and athletic skills. Poker does not. It’s a game, not a sport, but it most definitely is a competition.

Poker is part and parcel of America's character and the American myth. There have always been two views of poker. Here are both sides of the coin. One is that gambling is sinful and no good, and the positive side is the vision that it is the defining characteristic of the American dream where all are equal at the poker table and race, color, creed, sex, national origin, and physical ability has nothing to do with it. The best triumph and that's how it should be in a capitalistic society - and poker mirrors that.

SL – Do you see the Internet as being a major poker education venue and a way to start to bring poker players together as a subculture and initiate growth and change?

LK - Sure, the Internet can do the same thing for poker that it is doing for every other facet of American social, economical and political life. The Internet is the most rapid means of communication we have today. In a sense, by posting a message on the Internet, every person is his or her own broadcast network. And, what remains is for poker to take hold of the Internet, make good use of it and as the Internet becomes more and more the province of everyone and not just the computer "techies," then poker can be expanded through the Internet just as it has heretofore been expanded just through brick and mortar casinos. PokerPages is a good example of how it can happen.

SL - Do you believe the Internet can be an excellent tool to help diminish the fear and intimidation the average "kitchen poker player" has and help them to feel comfortable in getting into the real brick and mortar casino poker games?

LK - Yeah, I do. It isn't perfect, however, but you can do a lot through the Internet. You can use it as a learning tool to improve your poker knowledge. You can play against other opponents for real money or play money. Talking with other poker players, reading postings by other players at places such as rec.gambling.poker and www.pokerpages.com gives the new player a firm foundation on which to base his or her poker game. I think you can lessen your fear and intimidation because you've acquired some really practical knowledge from so many different poker players who are posting on these websites.

Having said that, the first time you walk into a casino or card room, there is going to be a certain intimidation because you are going to play against people face to face. The environment is different. But learning the lingo, the etiquette, how the action goes around the table won’t take as long because of your Internet experience and knowledge.

SL – Just as in other spectator competitions, do you believe we can take poker to another level by getting corporate sponsors to back top seeded professionals during major events?

LK - You know, everybody would like to think that and everybody hopes that happens. Whether that comes to pass is still problematic. Number one, you have to make poker visual so it appeals to television viewers. I don’t think corporate America is going to sponsor poker like they sponsor other sporting events. TV programs have to make money, and no one at the network programming level will be interested in showing poker tournaments on television unless it attracts viewers, since viewers mean revenue. Poker is not a sport where there is athletics and body movement. In Football, baseball, basketball, golf, there is always something visual happening. Poker just doesn’t bring that element.

Corporate sponsorship is the key to the greening of poker. If poker can be shown to 20, 30, 40 million people on television, some subset of that viewing audience will say "...hey, that looks pretty good, I want to do that, how do I learn?" Corporate sponsorship can help generate the appeal.

SL – Don’t you think that people live vicariously through those sports? And you could do that through poker? People who have never had an interest in poker watch the Discovery channel and get really excited about watching the game unfold during the TOC and WSOP.

LK - Late Night Poker in the UK was a great experiment. Unless you can see what the cards are, there is not much excitement except to avid poker players. With the added dimension of the glass table top, you can see who is bluffing whom and I think it can create a rooting interest. You’re watching someone and you know that your guy has the best hand and he’s facing a big bet but he doesn’t know he has the best hand. You’re rooting for him like crazy, saying "...call, call, call," wondering if he is going to or not. Late Night Poker was groundbreaking because even the most casual of viewers actually knew more than the competitors, because they could see all the cards that created a strong emotional hook and sold it. Making poker a visual game that people can identify with is critically important. Once you do that, you will have corporate sponsorship.

SL – Would you like to see the dress requirements, general etiquette and overall appearance be elevated to create a more professional image?

LK - Once we have corporate sponsorship, the questions about having some sleazy people in poker and getting them to clean up their act will take care of itself. When there is corporate sponsorship, they will call the shots. PGA golfers wear long pants - not shorts - no matter how hot it is because it is part of the image.

Rodeo cowboys wear jeans, cowboy hats and western shirts. They don’t wear polo shirts if they want to compete for the prize money. It’s the rule. You can do the same thing with poker, and if someone else is putting up the entry fee, you are going to have a lot of people motivated to go after it and they will have to play by the sponsor's rules, or not play at all. The way it is now, there's a very compelling argument that “it’s my money I'm putting at risk, I'm competing for it and I'm going to dress the way I want.” Now, if it is someone else's money, I think all that will go away, and it will go away very quickly. People are motivated by self interest, and they'll dress and comport themselves in a more professional manner. Moreover, if there is sponsorship, I don’t see why you wouldn't have poker players wearing sponsored gear.

SL - I have noticed a major change in the demographic make up of the tournament poker player as well as the cash game player. Yes, there are many of the “old school” players, but women and younger players are beginning to challenge that field. As the general population of poker players make this evolution, do you see poker ever getting to a place where young, educated people will be recruited and coached to become world champions?

LK - What you are talking about is the perpetuity of the game of poker. Here is an example. Horseracing is a dying sport in America. The average horse player is statistically a white male about 58 years old. That doesn’t say much for the future of horseracing as a sport. We have a population that is dying off and no one is coming in to replace them.

If poker is to perpetuate itself, we need to have a continuing infusion of young new talent into the game. We need new generations with their view and style. People in their 40’s and 50’s have one sense of style and a new generation will have a new sense of style. But, there are going to be poker players and they are going to come up through the game and become better at it.

SL – Do you think a player who has done all the homework, studied the art and techniques of the game of poker can excel at both tournament play and live cash game play, or should they concentrate on one or the other?

LK – Well, certainly it seems to me that some people do well in cash games as well as tournament play. There are others who seem to do well in one over the other. I prefer cash games and I will tell you why. One of the things about being a tournament player, and I am talking about the people who travel the major tournament circuit, is that they are on the road a lot. They are in Vegas, Los Angeles, Costa Rica, and overseas and I personally don’t want to live my life out of a hotel room, nor do many other players.

As an author, I need to be around my research materials and a place that facilitates writing. I don’t adjust well to playing 5, 6, 7 hours and getting into the top 15% of the finishers and having nothing to show for it. But that's my personal preference. Other players love tournaments and play them exclusively. One of the nice things about poker is that it does offer different strokes for different folks.

People pretty quickly develop a feel for what they enjoy more and tend to veer off in one direction or the other. Some do well in both. A few are great tournament players but have a reputation as being a complete “fish” in a cash game.

SL - You grade yourself at the beginning of every year. I notice in your column that you try to learn a new game every year also. Do you suggest that all poker players extend their knowledge base to understand more about theory of poker in all venues?

LK – Well, one really ought to do both. I think you need to concentrate on something and do it well because it forms the basis and core of your conceptual understanding. Having said that, learning another game does a couple of things. Number one, it lets you look at your original game from a little different perspective and helps you to develop new insights. Number two, sometimes you walk into a casino intending to play hold’em and the hold’em game is lousy because the players are all too good, however, there is a stud game or an Omaha game and they are just juicy. Now, if you can play those games well, you can go where you stand a chance of making more money. And number three, variety is the spice of life. Sometimes you just get burned out on one game and this allows you to go play something else for a while.

Some days I just don’t feel like playing hold’em. I have even had days, dare I say it, when I felt like playing Omaha, but don’t tell too many people that. With a little experience you can learn to excel in different games and that gives you both variety and flexibility. It makes life a lot more fun and you get more enjoyment out of poker.

SL – I would like to get your take on the relationship between the Internet and brick and mortar casinos.

LK – I would like to go into every city of this country and find thousands of poker players playing. I think that would be terrific, and that could happen. It takes upgrading poker's image, corporate sponsorship along with a way to teach the game to a new generation of players. Poker players need places where they can gather, whether it is gathering in person at events like BARGE and ESCARGOT or gathering in cyberspace at PokerPages.com to discuss and play poker.

Every cultural movement in history up until recent times has always been identified with a geographic area. Every movement has had a home where the leading edge people in that movement went to so they could converse with others who were at their level. Now, at the millennium, you don’t need a physical place for this to happen. You have cyberspace. You can improve your game by communicating with the people who are really good players on the Internet. The Internet is a "salon in ether." You have places for the exchange of ideas and information and the continuing cross fertilization of ideas. Those who take advantage of opportunities like this can elevate their poker skills to incredible heights because they are continuing to re-infuse themselves with knowledge, learning what other people have done that improves their play. The people who don’t partake in this don’t even know what's happening. As a consequence, they'll never grow beyond their limited horizons. It is hard to take the brick and mortar facilities and push a button to make them see that the Internet is not a competitor, but a partner. That is a long, hard process. In some cases, you will never be 100% successful.

Some people are afraid of change and are inherently conservative. Nevertheless, the future is rushing headlong at us. We can either roll over into a fetal position and make believe it is not coming or we can rush out to embrace it. I prefer the latter. Since you can't avoid the future, you might as well see what it has to offer and make use of it rather than hunker down and hope that this tidal wave slides right by us.